...

[from_the_corner]

I've watched "Trinity", with Martin Wood and Damian Kindler commentary, for the first time. And I kinda have problem with what they (well, mostly Damian) said.

Because, basically, for them this episode was about  taking McKay down a peg. Deliberately.  To show that he makes mistakes not  because he's human, but because of his ego.
I'm not even  gonna go in the direction "you made him like this".  No.
I'm just trying to understand, why.
I used to think, that whatever glimpses of Rodney we had in SG-1, those weren't good for a reason. He wasn't suppose to be a recurring character, not to mention a main one. But TPTB made him big, and supposedly "polished" him a bit. Be it because "48 hours" Rodney would be unbearable or they just wanted to show that circumstances can change a person drastically. The latter - that's how I saw it.  Apparently I was wrong. Apparently McKay is (or was at the time of "Trinity"), still the same little man, seeking just his personal triumphs, and all else be damned.
And this whole "trust" issue, and Rodney actually using John to get to Elizabeth...  ( yeah, apparently he did use John...), proving that he would say/do anything to get what he wanted? And again all else be damned?  WTF?

(On the side  note of "trust" - nothing tells me that they (Elizabeth in particular) trusted Rodney, even before "Trinity". It's especially clear whenever Radek is involved in the scene. Every time Rodney presents a plan, every god damned time, she turns to Zelenka, looking for confirmation. Like Rodney is just a spokesperson, and she has to check if he said, what he was supposed to say.
I'm sorry, but this is not the way one treat their CSO.)

I just can't understand, why one day they can make Rodney all heroic and self-sacrificing (and it doesn't matter if it's reluctant or with whining) and the next claiming he's still the biggest egomaniac in two galaxies, deserving to be punished for his behavior.

I'm a Rodney fan. He's my  absolute favorite and this probably clouds my judgment a lot.
So, I need someone to say,  that I'm paranoid and reading too much between the lines. Or that I should go and exercise my English more, so I could better understand what Martin and Damian were actually saying.

Because there's no way I understood them right. They can't deliberately keeping Rodney in a state of total selfishness (so to speak), can they?
And yes, I know that it's been two years since this commentary. But this one makes me reluctant to listen to others, especially for more character oriented episodes. Because right now I have a feeling, that they are filming a show, that is totally different from what I'm watching.

Although, in all truth, I'll probably keep interpreting things my way.

Comments

[tarlanx]

I'm happiest when I just interpret the character my own way :-) Yes, Rodney has an ego the size of a planet BUT he is also a good friend, and loyal, willing to put himself in harm's way to save others even though he is scared to death at the thought. You cannot ask for more than that! He's so very human - and that's what i adore about him :-)

[lavvyan.livejournal.com]

Yes, exactly. :)

[from-the-corner.livejournal.com]

Oh, I absolutely agree.
But it constantly irritates me, that all we see on screen is "we can't feed his ego" and - apparently because of this - he almost never gets a simple "thank you" for all his efforts. But there's never a problem with telling him off.

[from-the-corner.livejournal.com]

Which basically means, I should stick to my own point of view, and don't care what the TPTB are trying to tell me?
Well, that's pretty easy, especially with all the fabulous writers here *g*

[rasah.livejournal.com]

the way i look at it... in life (real life) there are people who come across as 'bad' but the few, the really luck few, who get to really know them, know better. and that's us - and the team in more recent series - we know how great rodney is under all that bluster. cause we see through it. maybe not all the writers on the show are as lucky? ;D

that's how i see it anyway - cause if i dodn't i might not want to watch anymore and i'm with you - rodney is my favourite, i love him very, very, much. ♥ ♥ ♥

[skidmo-fic.livejournal.com]

Here via sga_noticeboard

Okay, so here's how I see it.

Rodney did need to be taken down a peg. (Please continue reading before getting too upset. I happen to adore Rodney myself.)

It's not that he's such an egomaniac that he's horrible and needs to be punished. It's that he knows exactly how smart he is and that makes him tend to think he can do anything. It's not a case of him seeking his own personal triumphs and all else be damned. He honestly did think he could get the platform to work. But if he is constantly right about everything and he's got an enormous ego (which he does), he becomes unbearable as a character. Which is why we need to see how devastated he is when he fails, when he's wrong, and especially when a mistake he has made causes someone to die. Because Rodney isn't perfect. No one is.

As far as your side note on trust goes, I think the reason Elizabeth always turns to Zelenka is because Rodney has a tendency to get so excited about the possibilities of whatever they're trying to do, and be so completely certain that he can make it work, that he tends to gloss over the possible complications. Not because he just wants a chance to prove his brilliance, but because he honestly thinks it won't be an issue. Radek is there to ground him. He's the voice of reason. All geniuses need someone like that.

So no, Rodney isn't in a state of total selfishness, but his understanding of his own genius often makes him blind to the fact that, yes, he is human. And he will make mistakes. And because he's so brilliant, his mistakes will be epic.

So, ultimately, the whole Doranda thing was the writers' way of making sure that McKay understands that he is not infallible. And it had to be something so huge so that it wasn't something he could just brush off as acceptable.

[from-the-corner.livejournal.com]

I like it that you are so reasonable :-) And I'm not being ironic.
But I don't think I can agree with you completely.

Rodney did need to be taken down a peg.

But isn't what everybody always try to do? Almost in every episode, there is a moment, when when someone "shoots him down".

he knows exactly how smart he is and that makes him tend to think he can do anything.

Him, and everybody else. Remember the "I'm not a Superman" and "No one thinks you are?". Oh, but they so do. And each time shit hits the fan, they expect him to pull another miracle. And he usually does (with help from Radek, true), except this one time.

And because he's so brilliant, his mistakes will be epic.

Obviously.
But what about Carson gigantic mistake on Hoff?And the fact that all he got was sympathetic pats on the back? How was this different? Because he didn't babble as much as Rodney?
Why we never saw Elizabeth brilliant diplomatic skills go the wrong way, resulting in a mass massacre?
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see others suffering the way Rodney did. But he's not the only one brilliant there, and not the only one capable of making uge mistakes, despite his sincere motives.
I guess I'm just tired of Rodney being the whipping boy.

So, ultimately, the whole Doranda thing was the writers' way of making sure that McKay understands that he is not infallible.

McKay understads? Or others?

And it had to be something so huge so that it wasn't something he could just brush off as acceptable.

I seriously doubt Rodney would ever brush it off. He watched too many of his colleagues die, and he already blames himself for their death, to act like this.

It was the writers, who brushed it off. It was big or it was supposed to be big. And they closed it in just one episode.

You know, you calmed me down a bit. I tend to get a bit, let's say, passionate, whenever Rodney is concerned ;-)

[from-the-corner.livejournal.com]

Heh - I like the idea: they write, but they don't really know who they write about ;-)
But would they listen if we try to tell them? Noooo... *g*

[skidmo-fic.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I'm glad I calmed you down some. :)

But isn't what everybody always try to do? Almost in every episode, there is a moment, when when someone "shoots him down".

Well, that's the point, isn't it? Everyone tries, but nothing actually works. And in the end, Rodney's usually right, so none of the criticism sticks.

And each time shit hits the fan, they expect him to pull another miracle. And he usually does (with help from Radek, true), except this one time.

Also the point. He can't be right all the time. And maybe everyone else needed to see that as much as Rodney did. They expect him to work miracles, and maybe they shouldn't.

But what about Carson gigantic mistake on Hoff?And the fact that all he got was sympathetic pats on the back? How was this different? Because he didn't babble as much as Rodney?

The difference is that Rodney is the only one touting his own brilliance. Carson didn't brag that he could make the serum work. He didn't think it was ready to be distributed. And he didn't push others into letting him finish it despite realistic doubts about the project. He gets sympathy where Rodney doesn't because he tried to stop it once he realized it was moving too fast.

McKay understads? Or others?

McKay. The others (while they do count on him to work scientific miracles when they desperately need them) don't have McKay's complete confidence in his ability to work out any problem he comes across.

I seriously doubt Rodney would ever brush it off. He watched too many of his colleagues die, and he already blames himself for their death, to act like this.

That's what I'm saying. His mistake had to be something this big because if it were any smaller, if no one had died, he would have been able to brush it off. Doranda was big enough that he had to face it.

It was the writers, who brushed it off. It was big or it was supposed to be big. And they closed it in just one episode.

I agree with you on this, but I don't think it's something unique to Rodney. How much dealing with the aftermath of Carson's death have we seen? How much of his angst over Michael did we see? The SGA writers have a tendency to close storylines after one show or a two or three story arc at most. It's not something they only do to Rodney.

[mf_luder_xf]

This is often why, though at times I find them funny, I think the era of the commentary detracts from the show (I tend to be a blooper girl and less commentary). I noticed this with a lot of SGA commentary. And you're right, this episode in particular annoyed me. I think you're right in your feelings and you're certainly entitled to them. In general, Trinity is not one of my favorite eps because of all the political background they tried to put into it. It just kind of irritates me. And the way the characters and writers treat McKay is just part of it.

[from-the-corner.livejournal.com]

The others (while they do count on him to work scientific miracles when they desperately need them) don't have McKay's complete confidence in his ability to work out any problem he comes across.

This, I can't agree with. They do expect him to work miracles. If they don't believe he actually can, then is it just wishful thinking on their part? It's a contradicion for me.

The rest, well, those are very valid points. And taking Rodney character purely canon-wise, it's hard to argue with them. And maybe this is my problem - I tend to "extrapolate" too much, I think. Fandom and my own imagination may have something to do with it ;-)

[from-the-corner.livejournal.com]

I only recently discovered, that the commentaries are usually recorded before the episode airs. Which is kid of pity, really. Because as much as I love hearing about funny stuff happening on set, or how specific scene was made - I think it would be perfect opportunity to address some of the issues the fans have. And God knows we have plenty.

[aizjanika.livejournal.com]

I'm a little late here, but I thought I'd stick my two cents in anyway. *g* This is from someone who watches SGA because of SG-1, so I'm not particularly fannish about it beyond occasional squee. I'm not involved in the SGA fandom, so I mostly only know what my Rodney-loving, SG-1-fan friends thought about this episode. *g*

That commentary makes no sense to me.

This is the way I saw that episode:

It's Rodney's job to see possibilities and to push for what he thinks is right, but ultimately it was Elizabeth's responsibility to make that call and she is responsible for the outcome. Militarily, Caldwell also made the call and he is just as responsible. That is the way it works in the military.

John, too, promised both Elizabeth, Caldwell, and Rodney that he would pull Rodney back from the brink if it looked like things weren't going well. John made a promise, possibly out of friendship and affection, that he could not keep, because he wasn't entirely qualified to judge the situation. That was his own responsibility, though.

I never understood why everyone blamed Rodney at the end of the episode or acted like he had to regain the trust of those around him, or why Elizbeth felt justified in screaming at him in front of the entire base. I can remember being somewhat flabbergasted by it, because Rodney was not in charge. They were. They made the decision that allowed this to happen. It really pissed me off that they were laying the blame at Rodney's feet and taking none of it for themselves. It wasn't like Rodney went rogue and did this completely on his own.

What bugs me about SGA is that they give Rodney all this character growth, and then constantly try to snatch it back and pretend he didn't have that growth.

Although, in all truth, I'll probably keep interpreting things my way.

Me too. I felt this same way about SG-1--that they were not filming or writing for the same show and characters that I knew. *g*

[from-the-corner.livejournal.com]

Word, my friend, word...

It's beyond me, why Rodney is constantly deserving "special treatment" (meaning: taking down a peg), just because he's loud and sure of himself. And why, because of this, his mistakes are supposed to be worse. Especially when in 99,99% he's right. I will never agree to this, so yeah - completely different show ;-)

[aizjanika.livejournal.com]

Yeah. :-)

My perspective comes a lot from my husband whose been in the military for over 29 years now. A commanding officer would be held responsible for the decisions he or she made.

As for Rodney, he's such a woobie! *g* I like it when he's "taken down a peg" by realizing that his friends really care about him or maybe when he realizes he can't save or fix everything and everyone. It's most interesting when Rodney himself takes a step back and looks at the situation and realizes something about himself, or when he takes a step forward (like in Hide and Seek, The Eye, and The Defiant One) and realizes he *can* do things.

A better ending to this episode would have been Rodney perhaps blaming himself and feeling guilty (but not everyone else blaming him, too), and the others admitting their culpability and possibly getting into trouble for it. *g*